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certification

  • 1.  certification

    Posted 07-06-2024 12:04
    I have worked at two hospitals and a doctor's office as a phlebotomist in a state that requires certification.  In all three of those places, I have seen or had to train MAs or ER Techs on drawing blood.  The MAs had a video class on phlebotomy but absolutely no hands on or even close up training or experience.  The ER Techs had even less training not knowing even the basics of drawing. (how to apply the tourniquet and order of draw) How can these people safely and effectively be doing my job when they have little or no education, no training, no practice and no experience?  How is this legal?  


  • 2.  RE: certification

    ASCP Ambassador
    Posted 07-07-2024 06:23

    They meet the minimum requirements to perform phlebotomy as established by CLIA regulations. They also are not phlebotomists, but being trained to perform phlebotomy as a function of their other job duties. As uncomfortable as it seems, it is perfectly legal. 



    ------------------------------
    Kathryn Golab Technologist/Scientist, non-supervisor (CT,MLS,MT)
    New Berlin WI
    (262)923-0609
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-07-2024 08:20

    I'm wondering what kind of requirements have they met? Like I said, they knew very little, had no hands on, no practice, no experience. I've seen the damage that was done. I would be afraid for anyone but a phlebotomist to draw me blood.







  • 4.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-08-2024 09:15
    It is perfectly legal as long as competencies are performed and proper training has been completed. Is it good for our profession, probably not. So much of the time these people are trained less than adequately.  If you are going to let non-certified people perform phlebotomy duties you should set minimum requirements for their training that must be met and competencies should include observation by a certified phlebotomist or tech.  Just my opinion but allowing non- certified people to perform phlebotomy, or Lab testing is not good for our profession. It gives administrative personnel the ideal that certifications are not needed and allows them to keep pay scales lower.  I know that it may be out of necessity, but there in lies the problem. Just an opinion!


    Robert Hale M.A., MT(AAB)





  • 5.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-07-2024 09:25

    Lynda, if the state requires certification to perform phlebotomy and the individuals you trained are performing phlebotomy without the certification, then of course it is not legal and likely would not pass accreditation standards as well.

    Do you know for a fact that your trainees are actually performing phlebotomy?   Perhaps the training you provide is just a step to further study and certification. 

    You can always contact the facility Administration to advise them of the state requirements and your concerns. 



    ------------------------------
    Carolyn Stout, MPH, MLS(ASCP), RN,CIC
    Infection Preventionist, Retired
    Public Health Associates
    Charlevoix, Michigan 49720
    314-517-2397
    cjstout@umich.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-07-2024 23:15

    I agree, I am constantly training nurses. This is unfair to all parties involved. Phlebotomy is a skill and training needs to be done.



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    Jay Botinelly Technologist/Scientist, non-supervisor (CT,MLS,MT)
    Littleton CO
    (303)794-5958
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-10-2024 16:24

    At the hospital where I've worked for 12 years as a med tech, in the last year we have started "on the job training" for medical technologists… no education or board certification required. I am terrified for our health care!



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    Melisa Waters Technologist/Scientist, non-supervisor (CT,MLS,MT)
    Broken Arrow OK
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-10-2024 16:32

    That is frightening.







  • 9.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-10-2024 20:37
    That is totally scary!  It's discouraging that there is so little respect for our profession that they don't see the need for the education required to make a quality Lab professional.  Over the years I have seen attempts at doing on the job training which almost always leads to a disservice to the patients we serve. I've seen where this has lead to harm to the patient. I hope that you have voiced your concern on this.  Things like this keep people from going into the lab profession, along with low wages. Why would you spend money on a lab school if you can get the same money for on the job training.  

    Robert Hale M.A., MT(AAB)





  • 10.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-10-2024 20:51

    At one of the hospitals where I used to work, we had a department meeting. We were to write a paragraph on what we thought needed to change. I ended up writing a page and a half on this subject.  I never hear any further for follow up or questions.
    At this place, we were to take the new ER Techs and help them get their 100 sticks in. We all assumed they had already finished schooling and this was their clinicals. We found out differently when none of them knew even the basics. The ER Tech that was with me never drew anyone. It is frightening. The damage they could do and incorrect results I'm sure are really bad.







  • 11.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-10-2024 21:11
    No doubt. We rely on phlebotomist to know what they are doing.  Getting blood is only a part of the equation. Draw order, sterile technic, etc, are all of utmost importance. As they say, Garbage in, Garbage out!

    Robert Hale M.A., MT(AAB)





  • 12.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-11-2024 09:09
    I believe a bigger threat to patient care is not having anyone who can work in the lab.  I've seen that if you have the right candidate and good training you can succeed.  

    If you're fortunate enough to have a fully certified staff,that's fantastic.

    Otherwise, the industry needs systems to train BS degrees on the job.  Couple that with a career ladder to include certification as ASCP allows.  






  • 13.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-11-2024 10:15

    Should we be training on the job to do surgeries as well? Or nursing? Where do we draw the line? People with chemistry degrees and such have absolutely no base knowledge of immunology, and a very large portion of laboratory testing is based on immunology. Do you really trust a person with no clue about antibody-antigen interactions to crossmatch a unit of blood to be transfused into your body, or your kid's? Unfortunately, "systems to train BS degrees on the job" have zero standards or regulations. My director literally told me "We can train them for 1 day in blood bank if that is what we choose to do". For the record, I am not at some podunk backwoods hole in the wall lab, I work for one of the biggest health systems in my state. In order to train these people effectively, we would be running an MLT program out of our lab. If we are already so short staffed that we have to hire people with zero lab education or certification, do we have proper staffing to do this level of educating and training on the job? We have new people with no lab education "training" new people who also have no lab education. This is a huge problem that is going to be too big to fix before people even realize the magnitude of the problem.



    ------------------------------
    Melisa Waters Technologist/Scientist, non-supervisor (CT,MLS,MT)
    Broken Arrow OK
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-12-2024 02:27

    I find that for the Tulsa area to be that short staffed is ridiculous.  I got my B.S. in Medical Technology  through  NSU OK@ Broken  Arrow.  TCC has a great MLT program as well. The powers  that be do not want to pay the  wages that we deserve.  So they go around  any way possible  to  keep  from giving a liveable  wage. This job isn't  easy. It's  fast paced and  exhausting.  We get little  to no respect as is. Bringing  just anyone in and teaching  them  to  do out job is not improving  the  situation.  I find it very dangerous. It is insulting  to those who  have gone through  all the right steps  and have the all the certifications. There are lots  of kit tests that are CLIA waived. Lab assistants and phlebotomists can be trained to do those. There needs to be proper  training programs and documentation  for  it. But it can be done.  It's  not the 95% normal  samples that we process every day  that is the issue.  It's  the 5% (depending  on patient population) that we see every day that scare me. That's  when we are the sentinels  that find the blasts in  the blood smear, dilute the 1100 glucose  on an unknown diabetic,  or the 550,000 WBC that has to be diluted those are the moments that  make it all worth it. We save lives and we are essential  to  patient  care. 



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    Jeana Culpepper Technologist/Scientist, non-supervisor (CT,MLS,MT)
    San Angelo TX
    (325)600-3883
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-12-2024 05:52

    I feel you. I think it's a threat to patient care and to the image of the profession at large. 

    I believe the threat is not only in your state. I have seen folks with no lab training working in the lab. Meanwhile, professionals with MLS, or even DMLS are unemployed.

    The cause may be different. In my country, it's primarily due to poor regulation of lab practices. The lab has been deprived of its status by decision makers in the health sector in favor of other clinicians. 

    I don't know know the real reason for this in your country. For us, it's not due to lack of qualified professionals. But lack of proper regulation.

    I for instance have to do nonpaid voluntary work in order to stay active and not get rusty. Thus I obtained MLS ASCPi certification and ready to move to the USA anytime from now.

    So perhaps, instead of hiring unqualified personnel, the US can look into hiring more experienced and qualified professionals from other countries. 



    ------------------------------
    Ahmed Kofi Yeboah Medical Laboratory Scientist/Technologist (non-sup
    BACCSOD
    Sunyani
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-12-2024 10:15

    I have been preaching to college/university based programs for years that it is crucial to reach out to hospitals, especially in rural areas, and offer them the ability to train qualified individuals in their labs.  You do not have to be certified or professionally trained to meet the CLIA requirements for personnel standards.  Instead of bemoaning the fact that laboratories are hiring these individuals, work with them to establish training for their employees. The key is to have the didactic online and have a contract where the hospital does all of the training, laboratory and clinical.  This requires a 1+1 AAS degree or 3+1 BS degree so the training can be completed in one year after completion of all academics required for the degree.  It is a "win-win", the institution can increase student numbers at relatively little cost as there won't be lab supplies and the laboratory will have a fully functional lab professional trained on all of their SOPs.  They can even work the bench in some areas, separate from the educational experience, once certain course work is complete. I have done this successfully with several MLT programs.

    Terry



    ------------------------------
    Terry Kotrla,MS, MLS(ASCP)BB
    Program Director MLS Program
    Austin State Hospital Laboratory
    Cedar Park TX
    (512)560-5361
    Educator (academic)Educator (academic)
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-13-2024 09:32
    The problem is not with people that are coming in with chemistry backgrounds and plan to finish the coarse work required.  The problem stems from those that come in and have no intention to do the coarse work and get their certification. If we allow people to function as techs without getting certified then the certification becomes unnecessary. The point was made that would you allow a nurse or a doctor to do this? The answer would be no! So why would we allow uncertified techs to work that have no intention of getting certified. I would under no circumstance allow a person to perform a cross match without being certified regardless of their in house training. We degrade our own profession to allow this. We keep our salaries low by allowing this, we risk patients lives by allowing this.  Respect for our profession will only come when we hold our staff to the standard of being certified. 

    Robert Hale M.A., MT(AAB)





  • 18.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-13-2024 10:09

    Exactly 

    Aside from Tuition assistance and Transfer credits and Life experience credits and professional societies grants and scholarships- for many traditional educational curriculum programs and bridge and online - there is also many new innovative programs and strategic affiliations for interested applicants to acquire the necessary education and clinical internships to become board-certified eligible. 

    Attract and mentor future qualified board-certified medical laboratory professionals for patient care 

    Unfortunately most states lack licensure mandating national board certification similarly to all other medical professionals such as nursing and radiology and doctors and PAs and pharmacy etc etc etc 

    But long-term SOLUTIONS exist and need to be implemented 

    See the quality long-term SOLUTIONS to shortages and oppose recent misguided short-term proposals lowering personnel standards 

    Quality standards of laboratory testing by qualified board-certified medical laboratory professionals. 

    Patient care deserves no less 

    Https://biomedres.us/fulltexts/BJSTR.MS.ID.008604.php



    ------------------------------
    Angela Tomei Robinson MS MLS ASCP cm
    Ret Assoc Admin Director of Pathology
    Adjunct Professor/ Clinical Advisor
    Mineola NY
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-14-2024 06:36
    I agree with Robert! People should be certified. We need to focus on quality patient care. That means having professionals who have done the work , have the skills, expertise, and their license/ accreditation.

    Veronica Cordle MLT (ASCP),MLS(AMT).





  • 20.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-14-2024 13:57
    In Illinois, hair dressers are required to be licensed and have CE credits to maintain their license. No disrespect to these people, but what does that say about our profession in Illinois and other states that there are so many work arounds for laboratory certification.  We will never get respect as a profession unless and until enrollment in a lab program is required for personnel to train in lab testing and certification is required to work in our profession. The background knowledge from a lab program in all areas of lab testing and minimum knowledge requirements required to become certified are all intricate to assuring patient safety.

    Robert Hale M.A., MT(AAB)





  • 21.  RE: certification

    Career Ambassador
    Posted 07-15-2024 08:44
    I agree. In California there is a require 52 weeks hospital internship before one can get license to practice. ASCP certification is currently the gold standard. This goes with state legislation. We have a California organization CAMLT, that lobbies on these issues to ensure high standards in lab professionals 

    Qichao Stephen Ji, MS MSc MLS(ASCP)SBB CQA(ASQ) LSSGB





  • 22.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-15-2024 14:19

    We are in the process of creating a career ladder starting with people who have a high school diploma and two years' experience working in healthcare. They would be hires in as Clinical Laboratory Assistants and be taught rudimentary functions (specimen processing, phlebotomy, calibration and quality control, etc.) As they work, they have the opportunity to go to school online for their MLT and train with us for their clinical experience. Once they complete the program, their title, pay, and responsibilities increase. They can stay at the MLT level or, if they choose, they can return to school online and complete their MLS. We currently have a program that takes Bachelor's degree holders in biochemistry, biology, and microbiology and hire them in as laboratory assistants. They learn the tasks for three months prior to starting classes online, and they complete laboratory classes weekly during the school year. The following summer is unpaid clinical rotations at 40 hours per week. We then hire them into open MLS positions and they completely comprehensive training in each department before moving to the next. At this time we have three graduates that have all been working for us, and we have another finishing clinical rotations now. It is possible to train "on the job" safely using accredited schools for distance learning, and experienced staff invested in quality.

     

    April Patzer

    Medical Laboratory Scientist (ASCP)

    BS Biochemistry, BS Microbiology, BA Clinical Laboratory Science

    Clinical Laboratory Educator

    Fairbanks Memorial Hospital

     






  • 23.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-15-2024 14:34

    That is the best I've heard. Very good program.







  • 24.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-15-2024 18:49
    Exactly

    Traditional conventional NAACLS accredited educational curriculum programs- are critically needed and must be supported- 

    However- there are many new strategic affiliations and innovative programs to enable applicants to acquire the necessary educational curriculum and internships and become board-certified medical laboratory professionals.  And not referring to OTJ 

    Basically as professionals we need to oppose recent misguided proposals to lowering personnel standards & support quality long-term SOLUTIONS to shortages particularly Medical Laboratory Science 

    And Medical Laboratory Professionals deserve same right to practice profession with scope of practice and body of knowledge / skills and board certification similarly to all other medical professionals- nurses and pharmacists and therapists and radiology techs and PAs etc etc etc 

    Here is the recent featured journal 

    https://www.clinicallab.com/long-term-solutions-to-the-laboratory-workforce-shortage-27935

    Here is the original article 

    https://biomedres.us/fulltexts/BJSTR.MS.ID.008604.php

    Together we can acquire Media attention and Public awareness and Industry respect and Legislative support to ATTRACT RECRUIT RETAIN qualified board-certified and right to practice profession Medical Laboratory Professionals

    Quality standards of laboratory testing by qualified board-certified medical laboratory professionals 

    Patient care deserves no less 


    Angela Tomei Robinson MS MLS ASCP cm 
    Laboratory Advocacy ������������

    Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone






  • 25.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-16-2024 12:53
    This is really good for places that have a challenging time attracting and retaining personnel.  I would suggest that you expand it to the AP side if possible and form an alliance with an HT or HTL program.  The shortage is hitting all areas of lab and this would be a good way to recruit employees.  Many places are doing similar things to alleviate the shortage.  
    This would be good for current hospital staff to advance their careers.
    Partnering with programs is very beneficial to ensuring that quality trained professionals are working in the lab. 

    Good luck.

     

    Sincerely,

     

    Toysha N, Mayer DHSc, MBA, HT(ASCP)

    Asst. Professor/Assoc. Program Director

    HTL Program

    MD Anderson School of Health Professions

    832-710-1837

     

    The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and/or protected from disclosure. This e-mail message may contain protected health information (PHI); dissemination of PHI should comply with applicable federal and state laws. If you are not the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, any further review, disclosure, use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment (or the information contained therein) is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all references to it and its contents from your systems.





  • 26.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-10-2024 21:00

    I have taken my concerns up the chain of command all the way to the CEO. My supervisor tried to write me up for disrespect (I called her out for using MLS credentials when she is only certified in Chemistry & has no lab education). The write up was removed & the director & VP said they would develop a better training program for these people with no lab education or certification. This took place between November of 2023 until May of 2024. Nothing has changed. 



    ------------------------------
    Melisa Waters Technologist/Scientist, non-supervisor (CT,MLS,MT)
    Broken Arrow OK
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-10-2024 21:25
    Melisa, I applaud your attempts to voice your very real concerns. It's too bad more people in our profession don't speak up. As a former Lab Manager I refused to allow uncertified personnel to work in my lab. I would rather work the bench myself than allow unqualified people jeopardize patient safety.  Thank you for caring about your profession and the people you serve!!

    Robert Hale M.A., MT(AAB)





  • 28.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-11-2024 11:21

    Oppose recent misguided short-term bandaids lowering personnel standards 

    Support quality long-term SOLUTIONS to shortages- which fortunately definitely do exist- and provide resourceful options and opportunities and strategic affiliations and bridge and online and innovative programs to acquire qualified board-certified medical laboratory professionals 

    Qualified board-certified and right to practice licensed medical laboratory scientists and technicians for quality standards of laboratory testing 

    Patient care deserves no less 

    https://www.clinicallab.com/long-term-solutions-to-the-laboratory-workforce-shortage-27935



    ------------------------------
    Angela Tomei Robinson MS MLS ASCP cm
    Ret Assoc Admin Director of Pathology
    Adjunct Professor/ Clinical Advisor
    Mineola NY
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-11-2024 14:02

    This is just awful. Understandable that much of the lab is becoming automated, which alone brings its own issues and I'm not talking about mechanical processing of tests but the apparent lack of the number of Techs available to analyze results vs. computer based analysis. There are just too many mistakes made by automated analysis whereas a board certified tech could instantly see if there is a problem with the analysis and request new or better specimens so the results are as accurate as can be. Dismissing certified Lab workers and only using "on the job training" dilutes an already shrinking pool of qualified lab professionals. Face it! The laboratory is essential for proper diagnosis and evaluation of patients and unqualified results are at the patient's detriment. I feel, at times, the patient, who should be at the center of all our efforts, is being sidelined, and for what. Insurance is the biggest threat to qualified healthcare nowadays. I also fear the infiltration of AI into the laboratory environment which at this point in AI's infancy and lack of serious ethical boundaries is questionable at best.



    ------------------------------
    Patrick Rardin
    ck.rardin@outlook.com
    United States
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: certification

    Posted 07-12-2024 06:08

    That's indeed dangerous.

    We should build systems that we shall be very comfortable to be treated with the same system.



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    Kipkoech Mathew Med Lab Scientist/Med Technologist Supervisor
    Nairobi Gpo
    254727668879
    ------------------------------